FutureProof You

EP 17 AI First Mindset #fu
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[00:00:00] Dan Yu: Welcome everyone to another episode of Future Proof Use podcast F yourself. Today we are gonna be talking about ai. As always, my name is Dan Yu and we are joined by my partners John Lovig and Aaron Makelky. Uh, today, uh, Aaron is under the gun. We're going to be asking him a lot about AI and how companies are transitioning to be more ai.

[00:00:29] Dan Yu: First, [00:00:30] I think a lot of the pushback has been unwarranted. Um, it's where the market is going and so, um. Aaron, I'd love to, uh, you just kick it off, you know. Uh, what, what are some of the trends that you are seeing with companies making that move to ai? First,

[00:00:50] Aaron: Yeah, well, let's, let's just talk about this as if it's in phases. The first phase. a good way to think of that would be AI [00:01:00] curious. You open a new tab of chat, GPT perplexity, whatever you're using, and you're just experimenting with things.

[00:01:07] Dan Yu: I.

[00:01:07] Aaron: it do? How can it help me? What could I automate? Now people and companies are starting to move into what we're hearing called the AI first era, which is instead of experiment on the side. It's actually start with AI and know how to strategically integrate it into what you're already doing instead of playing around in a chat window. It's [00:01:30] deeply embedding it into the work that you're doing.

[00:01:32] Dan Yu: Well, uh, companies are going to be making this, uh, move faster and faster right into all of their processes. Um, ultimately they are going to be doing much more with the same level of talent or maybe less than they have today. Um, you know, and John and I being both, uh, recruiters. You know, we are seeing, uh, the move and we've, we've actually worked for clients, um, that have, uh, been very active in hiring, [00:02:00] uh, both, you know, prompt engineers as well as, uh, generative AI training, uh, talent.

[00:02:06] Dan Yu: Um, and so, you know, bringing that awareness right, I think is a, is a big trend as well. Right. Aaron, you know, within, within organizations.

[00:02:14] Aaron Makelky: Yeah, let's use some specific examples. Here's one from my marketing circles. Uh, a copywriter was hired. To be the last human in the copywriting department for an agency with the explicit instructions to automate [00:02:30] themselves out of that role, like you're the last human, but we don't even wanna have a human, help us build systems so that we can replace you, not necessarily from the company, but from that position. if you would've told that to people a year or two ago, they would've laughed and said, that won't happen. That's crazy. That's in some distant, far off future. That's happening in 2025 already.

[00:02:52] Dan Yu: And, uh, and, uh, j John, what, what, what things have you been seeing as far [00:03:00] as, uh, companies making that move, you know, in, in their hiring practices?

[00:03:03] John Lovig: Yeah, I mean there's a couple things. I mean, we already talked about the gen AI stuff, but even way, way earlier around the initial launch or, you know, public launch of open ais, um, chat GPT around that time period Uh, buzzfeed slashed a bunch of their, their, their team, they replaced. What's [00:03:30] better at creating listicles than ai? You know, that's what AI does best right now, if you want something, and especially if you're analyzing a ton of data out there, in the marketplace, or you know what's going on in pop culture, it takes one person. You could, you could triple x quadruple x one person in, in the place of what used to be five or six. But more importantly, in addition to seeing companies start using [00:04:00] AI first language in terms of their job descriptions. I'm working even right now, most of my searches, AI comes up. Um, I'm hiring a VP marketing for an AI training company. am, recruiting for a VP of product. His job. Is to work across an entire product suite to introduce agentic AI in as many features as possible. So to create as many AI [00:04:30] agents to solve customer pain points as, as, as humanly possible. And so it's coming up now and it's, you know, it's only going, even, even our own applicant tracking system that we use in my company now. have like nine or 10. Fields like on their website that say, AI agent coming soon doesn't say what the AI agent's gonna do, it, they have a handful of them that they'll be, they'll be bringing to [00:05:00] market very soon and I'm starting to hope it's something that really does make my life easier.

[00:05:04] Dan Yu: That's great. And, you know, so, so the fluency is really required almost from the get go. Aaron, you've seen, uh, certain companies, uh, just outwardly say that recently about the kind of town that wants to work at a certain company and the level of AI fluency that's required.

[00:05:25] Aaron: Yeah, the most recent example for people who aren't catching this right when it comes out, June of [00:05:30] 2025. Zapier, which is an automation company that's been around way longer than chat GPT, and all these AI models came out and said in a company blog, if you aren't at least interested in curious and experimenting in ai, we will not hire you regardless of technical skills or experience or things that maybe would've mattered more in the past. And they put out a chart. That we'll link in the show notes that you can open and look, and by role they list what's an unacceptable [00:06:00] level of AI fluency versus capable, adoptive and transformative. And they explained how they're gonna start hiring for that. Their interviews are gonna be reframed around ai, at least mindset.

[00:06:14] Aaron: That's where the AI first comes in. It's, it's more of a way of thinking than it is technical skills. a good example of this at his current company. We were talking about you before you came backstage and said, sure there are lots of other great recruiters and [00:06:30] you are one. But a unique skillset you bring is you can bring the company along in the tech, the ai, the content that you do, and I'm sure that's part of why they hire.

[00:06:42] Aaron: And you see that in roles that you guys hire every day.

[00:06:45] John: It is a direct mandate from my, from our CEO that, that, that's a project I'm working on is making us an AI first company.

[00:06:54] Dan Yu: And so, so, uh, you, uh, you, you bring that up, Aaron, uh, the curiosity, [00:07:00] right, and the willingness to experiment. And, uh, try new things. And then also you mentioned, uh, being transformative at Zapier, right? And so that's really being strategic. So thinking strategically, those are all emotional intelligence, right?

[00:07:22] Dan Yu: And so it kind of goes back to, you know, the theme that, you know, you have to be curious. You have to bring your [00:07:30] emotional intelligence to the job. Even in an AI first company. So no matter what, I think the, the, the real transformation is within all of us that we have to become, you know, more empathetic.

[00:07:46] Dan Yu: We have to bring more EQ to our roles. Rules based tasks are going away. What do you guys think?

[00:07:55] Aaron: here's, here's what I would say the irony is, and most especially tech [00:08:00] people don't appreciate this like you do, Dan, it's not actually technical skills that make you AI first. It's human, social, soft skills. So the example I always think of is if John went to his company and gave everybody a license for some AI tool, it's like, here's this cool, powerful agentic thing. would change zero behavior. That would be like giving everybody a treadmill and saying, look, you all do cardio now. You're all at a healthy BMI. Uh, [00:08:30] no. In fact, they're probably gonna resent you that you just dropped off a treadmill and didn't teach 'em how to use it or encourage 'em. Right. AI is no different than any other technology. Uh, if you dropped a, a high end PC with Adobe Premier off in everybody's cubicle, that doesn't make 'em good video editors. That's so the, the funny thing is. How can you teach it? How can you share it? How can you view it as a cultural change and a change of practice more [00:09:00] than it is technical skills.

[00:09:03] Dan Yu: So, uh, I think a lot of people are still apprehensive because they don't know where to go and they don't know where to start so that they feel that they can be level set or at least try to be level set on the technical side. So that's great, you know, oh, I've got, you know, I'm curious. I'm willing to change, I'm willing to do all of those weird experiments, but I don't even know where to start.

[00:09:26] Dan Yu: So where, where, where do we go?

[00:09:28] Aaron: Yeah, well, you're listening to this [00:09:30] podcast, so you must be looking for content online. Your favorite YouTube channel LinkedIn creator, all those are great. This is also explicitly why we started Future Proof You. It's because we said, especially with what's coming down the pipe in society and technology, there's gonna be a shift in hiring and jobs and careers that we wanna help people have a step-by-step process to take control of their career for themselves and not just trust that their company will have their best [00:10:00] interest in mind, or everything will work out for them. Uh, so the other one is you can take a class from us, and if you're listening in June of 2025, we have an AI first workshop. That you're gonna come with problems, with workflows, with things that you wish you didn't have to do manually every day. And you're gonna leave with a customized AI tool that you even get a license for.

[00:10:20] Aaron: You don't even have to pay to use it, which is by the way, worth more than the cost of the class. Uh, and you can learn from us and ask us questions and meet other people that are developing an AI [00:10:30] first mindset as well.

[00:10:31] Dan Yu: So, uh, some of the tools that are out there, I mean, obviously the big name ones, right? So Chat, GPT and Gemini, and Claude. Um, and also, you know, perplexity, right? That's been in the news scale, right? All, all, all of these companies, they're all in this race. And they're all gonna get better in leaps and bounds, but they're all still competing.

[00:10:54] Dan Yu: So I put it to both of you, you know, what are some of your favorite [00:11:00] tools and where do you think the trends are?

[00:11:03] Aaron: am gonna let John go first.

[00:11:05] John: Yeah, it depends. So, um, so far the, the tool that's encapsulated the most interest for me has been

[00:11:14] Dan Yu: I. Cool.

[00:11:15] John: and I think it's just the versatility of the enterprise platform and its ability to take stuff that I'm already generating and

[00:11:23] Dan Yu: Mm-hmm.

[00:11:24] John: Use it more. I also think what's really [00:11:30] interesting is, um, it's ai but um, recently I used Google Meet for the first time in a while and their transcription is really great. Um, so it's a, and it gives you really good meeting overviews. So obviously that's Gemini powering that. and Gemini is great at answering questions in app. I. In email. So it's interesting because right now we're [00:12:00] seeing uses of AI where we live. Um, what I'll be fascinated by is when we, if we get to a point where AI is powering the overall arching operating system like a co-pilot or a Siri, um, and when that gets to the point where it integrates with all the other things that we do in our lives, that will be fascinating to me.

[00:12:24] Dan Yu: This reminds me of the meme that, uh, you know, you have a [00:12:30] desk, right? And it's got all of the different, you know, tools on it. This is from, from let's say 1985 or something, and it has a boombox and it has a TV and it has an Apple two E and it has, you know, a, a voice recorder and it has all of these tools.

[00:12:45] Dan Yu: And then, you know, fast forward 20 years and it's, you know, it's just a cell phone.

[00:12:48] John: Mm-hmm.

[00:12:50] Dan Yu: It, it's got a video camera and a camera. It's got all of those single use items. And so in many respects, this is what we're, we're seeing again, [00:13:00] right? So, so you get, you went from all of these tools, and then now you can find them all under the, you know, the Google ecosystem.

[00:13:07] John: Well, and what's funny is the tablet came out so early in comparison, but think of how, how much more powerful a tablet be if the input to the tablet. Doesn't need to be a keyboard, then you don't have to deal with something bulky that you carry around. And then of course we are, I mean there's also the [00:13:30] other forms that, that companies are trying to implement around, you know, either ar, vr, of these other new ways of visual seeing information or, or just even. You know, communicating verbally with things, but sometimes you just need to see something. You know, I look at LinkedIn profiles and portfolios all day. I don't think that's gonna change anytime soon. Do I have to type in things in the future? No. Maybe LinkedIn's, uh, [00:14:00] eventual, their AI capabilities might get to the point where I could just tell what criteria I'm looking for and it will put it in for me. Uh.

[00:14:13] Dan Yu: Well, we've seen, uh, even recently, you know, science fiction has become reality with, uh, a Johnny Mnemonic type of plug in, right? So, who knows, maybe one day, you know, we'll all be just plugged in. To, to, [00:14:30] uh, to just think about where we want to go and, you know, with, with whatever we're researching. Um, Aaron?

[00:14:36] Aaron: I am gonna take a different angle.

[00:14:37] John: Angle.

[00:14:38] Aaron: large language models and the chat interface are the AI curious, uh, ui, ux, and now agents is a big thing. Uh, vibe coding is a big thing. MCP

[00:14:53] Dan Yu: Mm-hmm. [00:15:00] Mm-hmm.

[00:15:12] Aaron: I have been playing with Dia browser, DIA, uh, you can DM me on LinkedIn if you want an invite. It's made by the browser company that made arc. That's been my daily browser for most purposes for the last year and a half. Um, but now you can chat with [00:15:30] open tabs. Uh, the Zapier blog post I have open, that's all about AI first mindset. In the sidebar, you have a chat interface and I, I put in slash write a LinkedIn article about this. It has context on my writing style that I told it, and it drafts a LinkedIn post based on what's open in my tab. And then if LinkedIn is open, I can say, let's post this on LinkedIn or adjust it for my audience of entrepreneurs or [00:16:00] educators or whatever. Um, you could open

[00:16:02] John: Open

[00:16:03] Aaron: John. Uh, the video game world people were talking about. Opening up different tabs in your, your game history in lore, and then asking your browser to compare 'em or tell me how to unlock that item in the game that I'm in. Read these two, uh, finance. Forecast and, and tell me what I should do with my investment portfolio all without even looking at those tabs.

[00:16:27] Aaron: So, uh, DIA browser Comet [00:16:30] from Perplexity I don't have access to. I'm mad that I don't yet. I'm such a fanboy. It hurts that I don't have it, but I, I do think what the LLM can overlay onto. Your browser without having to manually interact. I think that is an AI first mindset shift that's coming. And one of my favorite tools that I'm not good at yet, 'cause it's new to everybody, but I think it's gonna be more and more common going forward.

[00:16:55] Dan Yu: That's terrific. Uh, really [00:17:00] helpful for all of our audience. Um, I think there's a lot of tools that, and, uh, tidbits that we have here, both for the experience and all, and all. Of course, the, the newbie, I. Right, the, the Luddites, it's okay. Everyone has to start somewhere and it's gonna suck whenever, wherever you start from.

[00:17:20] Dan Yu: So it's okay to suck in the beginning, be, and you'll just get better every day. And so bringing that curiosity, that willingness to experiment, as well as being [00:17:30] able to think strategically. I think that's gonna be the key for everybody going forward. Bringing your emotional intelligence or eq. Any final comments for today, gentlemen?

[00:17:41] Aaron: Yeah, if you miss the live class in June of 2025, check out the website future proof Y u.com, and there'll be a asynchronous version that you can grab for the AI first Mindset workshop.

[00:17:53] Dan Yu: I. Excellent. And, uh, we're gonna be having more products coming out, more [00:18:00] classes. Uh, John will have more communities right. Coming as, uh, this summer.

[00:18:05] John: Yeah, I would imagine so. I don't know anything about any additional ones as of yet, but I think the existing community might have more expansion.

[00:18:13] Aaron: the link,

[00:18:14] Dan Yu: Excellent. I.

[00:18:14] Aaron: lives are ticking up too. If you don't follow the Future Proof View page on LinkedIn, you'll see LinkedIn lives periodically as well.

[00:18:22] John: Yeah, we love a good a MA.

[00:18:24] Dan Yu: Yes, absolutely. Where you can bring your questions and really ask [00:18:30] us whatever you want. So, uh, this has been another episode of futureproof use podcast, F yourself, f yourself. We're here to help you Futureproof yourself. That's even in the name of our podcast. So proof you. This is another episode of our podcast.

[00:18:46] Dan Yu: Thank you so much for joining. Aaron. It's good to see you as always, John. Have a great evening. Thanks so much. ​[00:19:00]